"Liuget" debate on Rams' first round DT options

Written by Will on .

DT Stephen Paea Oregon State DT Stephen Paea

While there may not be a Ndamukong Suh in the draft this year, the draft pool of talent might be deepest on the defensive line. At least, so says Doug Farrar in his latest article for Football Outsiders, who has identified seven "near-certainties" to be picked in the first round. However, his article focuses on two players -- Corey Liuget, who we discussed yesterday, and Stephen Paea -- that are fringe first-rounders whose stock may swing heavily on their performance in next week's Combine.

While both receive positive scouting reports, I asked Farrar which he might prefer on the Rams, if he were standing in Coach Spagnuolo's shoes.

FO_DougFarrar
@RamsHerd Probably Liuget if Robbins was younger, but I like Paea as a guy to play 1-tech or over center as Robbins replacement.
FO_DougFarrar
@RamsHerd Robbins had a completely amazing season, but DT + mid-30s + microfracture a while back = yikes.

The Rams signed both Fred Robbins and Chris Hovan in the offseason, hoping for an injection of veteran savvy and leadership, and praying against the ravaging effects of age and injury. While Hovan fell in the first week of training camp, Robbins was lucky enough to stay upright and effective all year, logging almost 700 snaps. Can we expect a repeat performance in 2011? Clearly, the Rams have to be thinking long term when they draft at the position.

With the 14th pick in the NFL Draft, the Rams take: DT Corey Liuget?

Written by Will on .

Corey Liuget. Photo by Brian Cassella, McClatchy-Tribune Illinois DT Corey Liuget: Legit 1st round pick?

ESPN's Mel Kiper shook up his draft board with his latest mock draft. Most notable difference for the Rams? WR Julio Jones disappeared before the #14 pick rolled around, sending Devaney and company in search of the mythical "BATFAN" -- the best available talent that fits any need. (Hat tip to Roar of the Lions for coining the term.) And Kiper's pick certainly stirs the pot for Rams draft followers:

DT - Corey Liuget, Illinois

Liuget is a Junior, and has not been widely written about as rising stars from the Shrine Game and the Senior Bowl, and as such this is the first time he's hit the RamsHerd radar. Digging around, it's fair to say that opinion among NFL scouts is widely mixed on the interior lineman. One thing you can't deny, though, is that Kiper hits a glaring need for the Rams right on the head: the DT shuffle plagued the Rams all year.

Is Liuget a legit candidate to fill this spot? Here is a sampling of what the scouts say.

Shane P Hallam, Draft Countdown: "Liuget is Legit!"

In such a talented D-Line class, Liuget is a player who could get lost in the shuffle behind many top seniors or high profile underclass defensive tackles. However, Liuget is a legit prospect and could push himself into the early round conversation.

Of the scouts I polled, Hallam was easily the most positive on Liuget. Some more thoughts from his scouting report:

    Liuget has been nearly unstoppable when penetrating the defensive line, and it has showed up on the stat sheet. He has 4.5 sacks and 12.5 TFL, continuing to put pressure on the quarterback and in the backfield....

    He is a great fit in a 3-technique 4-3 system where he will be used as a pass rusher whose goal is to get into the backfield....

    He does have times when caught out of position or he uses the wrong technique and falters, but the tools are there...

Assuming Spagnuolo wants to pressure from all four defensive line spots, as is his norm, Liuget sounds like a nice fit. However, he does not sound like the prototypical run-stuffer that lines up over center. Given that the Rams' quantum leap forward in defensive performance this season resulted primarily from improved ability to defend the pass, though, that may not be a concern for the Rams' draft war room.

However, it's far from a slam-dunk among scouts that Liuget belongs in this conversation ... at least not right away. Scott Porter from New Era Scouting rates Liuget 4th among DTs. Fellow New Era scout Matt Miller says: "He would make an impact. Pretty raw, though. Love him as a three tech." However, Erik Galko from Optimum Scouting is significantly more bearish.

OptimumScouting
Not 1st round talent for us, rather Austin, A.Smith, many more RT @RamsHerd: @OptimumScouting Thoughts on Corey Liuget? Kiper mocks to STL.

In fact, Liuget doesn't even crack the top ten of the current Optimum Scouting DT rankings, with a simple note inscribed: "Should have stayed another year, raw talent." Via tweet, Galko expands: "Think he's a bit of a project, raw talent who doesn't max out as a Top level talent. Lots of good DTs, probably 3rd-4th best 3-tech."

The other players Galko suggests? That would be North Carolina DE/DT Marvin Austin, and Missouri DE Aldon Smith, who was the subject of a long and interesting Twitter debate yesterday between myself and TST's resident draftnik, known to the world as "3k". (In fact, even if Julio Jones was available, 3k would grab Alson Smith ahead of him.)

3k_
@RamsHerd ...I still think the leap to be had by taking Aldon Smith is larger than the leap in adding any rookie WR.

Before you start shaking your head, 3k was the very first to pencil in Sam Bradford to the Rams last year, weeks ahead of Adam Schefter when the rest of the mediaverse (including myself) had Suh fever. Of course, I still disagree, but it's a fun debate. Bottom line, this #14 pick could go in many different directions, and combine performances are going to shake up these rankings even further.  

Addendum: Don't like the Liuget pick? VanRam at TST offers some alternatives.  

Does Josh McDaniels need a stud rookie receiver?

Written by Will on .

Julio Jones. Photo by Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images North America Julio Jones is almost a slam-dunk mock draft pick for the Rams. But would he be able to contribute right away in McDaniels' offense?
CoachTruck
Rams question: with mc d as OC does that lessen the need for WR seeing as he seems to make what ever he has look great?

Faithful RamsHerd reader @CoachTruck raises an interesting question on the Twitterverse this morning. The Rams have been consistently mocked as taking Alabama WR Julio Jones with the #14 pick, and widely seen as a potential player for a free agent prize pass-catcher. (With Vincent Jackson franchised and out of reach, NFL.com's Steve Wyche suggests Jaguars TE Marcedes Lewis.) ESPN's Mike Sando chipped in with a look at rookie WRs taken on McDaniels' teams (the 2002-08 Patriots, and the 2009-10 Broncos).

One thing became apparent when looking at that list of rookies, though -- it wasn't a very impressive crop. Deion Branch leads the pack in production, but he didn't start producing until later in his career. Demaryius Thomas, taken in the first round by the Broncos, would seem to be a perfect blueprint for Julio Jones -- both are big, rangy receivers. But Thomas all but disappeared from the game plan early through the season. Injuries were partly to blame, but his production was already being swallowed up by unheralded veterans Eddie Royal and Brandon Lloyd.

Take a look at the age and experience of the starting wideout groups on each of McDaniels' teams. Except for the remarkable 2003 team, that list of rookies barely shows up. (WRs listed in order of most catches to least, with age in parentheses. Rookies are starred.)

2002 Patriots: Troy Brown (31), David Patten (28), Deion Branch* (23), David Givens* (22)
2003 Patriots: Branch (24), Brown (32), David Givens (23), Bethel Johnson* (23)
2004 Patriots: Givens (24), Patten (30), Branch (25), Brown (33) 
2005 Patriots: Branch (26), Givens (25), Brown (34), Tim Dwight (30)
2006 Patriots: Reche Caldwell (27), Brown (35), Doug Gabriel (26), Jabar Gaffney (26) 

By this point, only Brown in 2002 had more than 80 catches, and Branch's 78-catch season in 2005 was the only other to exceed 65 grabs. The Patriots were winning on guile and spreading the ball all over the field. Then, with the acquisition of Randy Moss and Wes Welker in 2007, the passing world turned upside down. 

2007 Patriots: Wes Welker (26), Randy Moss (30), Donte Stallworth (27), Gaffney (27)
2008 Patriots: Welker (27), Moss (31), Gaffney (28)  
2009 Broncos: Brandon Marshall (25), Gaffney (29), Eddie Royal (23), Brandon Stokely (33), Brandon Lloyd (28)
2010 Broncos:  Lloyd (29), Gaffney (30), Royal (24), Demaryius Thomas* (22)

It makes me wonder if the complexities and nuances of McDaniels' "amoeba" offense -- which literally changes each week depending on opponent and matchup -- place a higher value on technical proficiency and NFL-ready thinking than on youth and raw talent. To put it in baseball terms, with pitchers and catchers reporting, is McDaniels a Dave Duncan, able to get the most out of veteran players because they can follow his gameplan? And does McDaniels share Dave Duncan's disdain for hotshot rookies?

If so, the Rams' draft in April could start out on a much different foot than many pundits expect. And we will probably see an emphasis on bringing in proven veterans with a knack for picking up offenses (hint hint: Mark Clayton).

Complete list of Rams unrestricted free agents in 2011

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As a corrollary to this morning's article, here is a complete (and updated) list by position of the Rams' pending free agents to be, with their salary in 2010 noted. If there is no free agency, each of these players would report back to the Rams, who would then decide whether to pay them 120% of their 2010 salary, or cut them loose. Note that Mike Sando updated his own list by noting that Billy Bajema failed to meet contract incentives to void his deal and enter free agency. (Had a damn fine year, though.) 

Player - age - salary in 2010

Offense

WR Mark Clayton - 28 - $2,076,760 
RB Ken Darby - 28 - $467,280 
TE Daniel Fells - 27 - $467,280 
OT/OG Adam Goldberg - 30 - $626,760 
TE Darcy Johnson - 28 - $391,110
WR Laurent Robinson - 25 - $464,550
TE Derek Schouman - 25 - $465,850
G Mark Setterstrom - 26 - $467,150

A few notes: Adam Goldberg is the Rams' NFLPA Player Rep, which puts him on the front lines of knowing what his fate might be in 2011. Darby's emergence as a dependable third-down pass blocker and screen option likely would have earned him a return trip to Training Camp. Setterstrom is a candidate for early retirement, with his history of annual grievous injuries in the summertime. 

Defense

CB Kevin Dockery - 27 - $1,551,110
DT Gary Gibson - 28 - $510,000
S Michael Lewis - 30 - $5,000,000 (wow! a lot to pay for 13 tackles)
DT Clifton Ryan - 26 - $467,280

Interestingly, the Rams stand to return both parts of a reasonably productive DT tandem, Cliff Ryan and Gary Gibson, who stepped in as presumptive starter when Ryan went down. However, their spot is one that could definitely stand to be improved via a fresh infusion of talent; if both are brought back, I'm guessing only one makes the roster. The most incindiary name on this list is Kevin Dockery, whose perceived value by Rams fans is wholly different from his perceived value to Rams coaches, Spagnuolo in particular.  

Sources: Contract status for 2011 comes from RotoWorld's new  Rams Team Contracts resource; 2010 Salary info comes from the Rams Roster on Fox Sports




Bad news for armchair GMs: no free agency in 2011?

Written by Will on .

Mark Clayton sure looked good in a Rams uni. Mark Clayton would love to return to the Rams. He may not have a choice without free agency in 2011.

There's a lot of doom and gloom being reported on the NFL labor talks, as many cognoscenti in the media predict that there won't be any urgency until Training Camp, and no agreement until Labor Day. And if that happens, you can forget about the Rams making any improvements to their roster via free agency, unless you count re-signing their own players.

With the collective bargaining agreement expiring March 3, Babin and other would-be free agents face the very real possibility that they get ordered back to their old teams at the bargain basement price of 120 percent of their last salary. Play another season, risk serious injury. And wait.

-- Yahoo Sports: No labor deal puts NFL free agency at risk in 2011

For armchair GMs like me -- hell, like all of us who wonder "what if Sam Bradford had Vincent Jackson or Sidney Rice to throw to" -- this is a calamitous threat to our enjoyment of the offseason. At this point in the labor talks, losing free agency isn't a given, but veteran scribes like Sports Illustrated's Peter King are preparing us for disappointment, going out of his way in his Valentine's Day article to inject poison in our hearts.

The March 3 deadline is fairly meaningless, when you think about it. What happens in March that's vital to the regular season? Think of that word -- vital. Nothing. Is free agency vital to a season? No.

-- Peter King, MMQB

The only good news you can possibly wring out of this news is that under these circumstances, the Rams are a lot better off than a lot of teams, especially in their division.

Talks between NFL players and owners break down. Whose game is it anyway?

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The End is At Hand

Ryan Burns, in his latest Football Sickness podcast, said of the labor talks: "I'm like Milton Bradley and dinosaurs when it comes to the Lockout. I refuse to believe it exists."

This carefully architected attitude of disbelief allows us to imagine the Rams taking big steps forward -- Bradford soaking in the McDaniels offense as offensive pieces big and small get plugged in via draft and free agency, roster competition is added, minicamps and team-structured rehab sessions reinvest in assets like Donnie Avery and Mardy Gilyard. It allows us to go on talking football as if everything was normal.

But it's not. Talks between the owners and the NFLPA have broken down. And come March 4th, without an agreement, the NFL shuts down.

SI_JimTrotter
Goodell canceles the next CBA meeting? Two owners to me: If nothing before March 4, nothing till Labor Day at earliest.

Doug Farrar of the Shutdown Corner tells us what happens next:

    Players will not be able to report to team facilities for any reason - workouts, injury rehab, meetings. Team staffs may see their salaries cut, and some may lose their positions for the length of the lockout, or even longer.

    The players' health insurance will lapse, and it's entirely likely that players injured on the field will have to arrange for their own medical care. Free agency will not exist until there is a new agreement, and a lot of NFL players will essentially be unemployed.

It's tough for fans like us to stomach. And if it takes two to tango, it doesn't help that one dance partner is looking to brawl. And as Jason Cole writes, that certainly seems to be the case:

    “There are some owners out there who didn’t like how the last round went,” one league executive said. “You’re talking about some smart business people who felt like they were beaten at what they do best … there are some hard feelings about that.”

    One of the prime examples has been Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson, who has been leading the call for owners to “take back our game,” as he said during a firebrand speech at the league’s three-day meeting in March 2010.

This attitude begs the question: Whose game is it?

Thinking outside the lines with Chris Long: Is football too violent for kids?

Written by Will on .

ESPN's latest Outside the Lines segment is a compelling look at a question that faces us not just as football fans, but as parents: is the game too violent for young kids? How old should you be before you strap on pads and helmets?

It's a question that Chris Long, one of the stars of the Rams and the son of a Hall of Famer, posed openly on Twitter this afternoon. You have only to get 23 seconds into the video to see why even a pro's pro might get squeamish...

CL7TWO
how bout yall, do yall let your kids play football?

The collection of responses he got show how complex the issue is for those of us who love the sport, love our kids, and try to reconcile the violence of the one with the positive impacts for the other.

    "am struggling w/that subject right now; my son is almost 9 & is BEGGING 2 play; still not sure yet"

    "Absolutely. He's 10 & played last 2 years. Played left DE & FB/TE last year. It's rough, but kids learn valuable life lessons. Teamwork, discipline, committment."

    "I told my son he has to wait until 6th grade. He does play flag football though. He doesn't like though."

    "I wasnt able to play till middle school...i was to big to play in any leagues before that"

    "yea he LOVES it. He can't wait to start practicing again. Its the 1 thing that makes him forget video games."

    "damm right we play footballl....we bring the noisee!!!!"

One of the RamsHerd faithful, @PikeBishop, sparked further discussion by asking "Do you think there is a benefit to early hitting vs just learning and playing the game to protect any brain/head development?"

CL7TWO
@pikebishop i think the injuries are totally inevitable with grown men. i am not as sure about how little kids handle the sport physically.